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customhopo.txt
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customhopo.txt
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Reported by chris.paiano, Nov 18, 2008
This is NOT trivial!
First of all, I need more information. I don't have access to RB2, so I
need the rules of HOPO chords explained to me in detail. Don't assume I
know any aspect of this; explain every detail.
Screenshots or links to videos telling me to view a specific time would
also be helpful, but only if descriptions are given as to how these
patterns are supposed to be played on the guitar controller!
This will most likely require creation of a new HOPO system "RB2" -- just
in case it interferes with proper operation of the solid GH2 systems.
Comment 1 by chris.paiano, Nov 29, 2008
As posted here by holystoneH:
http://www.fretsonfire.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25040&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1635#p315400
"
ah i found again something great its not only on how hopo chords a determited but
also on how custom hopos are determinated. ill make you a picture:
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5668/fofkl8.jpg
i think that the custom indicator is on line 6 of every difficultie. the first 5
lines are for the 5 notes and line 6 is telling rockband if that note is a custom
hopo if its only one note. if there are 2 notes its a custom hopo chord
i think you can clearly see it on the picture
F8 = custom hopo (expert)
F7 = custom hopo (hard)
F6 = custom hopo (medium)
F5 = custom hopo (easy)
"
Comment 2 by chris.paiano, Nov 29, 2008
As posted here:
http://www.fretsonfire.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25040&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1650#p315666
"
i have for you a second picture with a comparison between the midi and real rockband
ingame:
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8232/fof2ec9.jpg
and i think that on line 7 there is the information stored to tell rockband if a note
should not be a hopo
my theory is that on
expert
line 6 (F8) is to activate a note as custom hopo
expert
line 7 (F#8) is to force a hopo to be a normal note
im sure about line 6 that it is for the custom hopo but i have to recheck about line
7 but i think that on this position it makes sense
"
Comment 3 by chris.paiano, Nov 29, 2008
As posted here by p_025:
http://www.fretsonfire.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25040&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1650#p315926
"
Yeah, check out the crazy chords part of Steely Dan - Bodhisattva:
http://www.geocities.com/p_025/crazychords.JPG
This is what it's supposed to look like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngCqs5_S-fY
Check out some of the comments on that video too;
--i don't understand, how can you have a hammer-on/pull-off chord that is exactly the
same as the previous chord and it still be a HO/PO chord?
--how to explain this... say it's a blue orange chord twice in a row. you hit the BO
(lol bo) chord, then you release it, then hit it again. without strumming.
You have to TAP all that garbage. Holy bajeesus.
"
Comment 4 by chris.paiano, Jan 22, 2009
I understand this issue now. I will be implementing a RB2 custom HOPO system with
HOPO chords that behaves exactly like Rock Band 2 in a future version (probably the
next major release after 3.100.
No more info is needed (label removed)
Type is no longer WishList.
Priority bump from VeryLow to Medium.
Labels: -Type-WishList -Priority-VeryLow -MoreInfo Type-Enhancement Priority-Medium
Comment 5 by chris.paiano, Jan 31, 2009
Issue 347 has been merged into this issue.
Comment 6 by chris.paiano, Jan 31, 2009
This issue now will encompass the entire RB2 HOPO system as a new feature. This will
allow custom HOPOs and forced strum notes, as well as HOPO chords - with a fallback
on automatic GH2-style HOPO markings for unspecified notes.
Fretters will be able to specify notes and chords that should always be HOPOs, notes
that should never be HOPOs, and any unspecified notes will use the automatic GH2
marking system for HOPO note generation.
Once this RB2 system is implemented, it should become the de-facto standard for
FoFiX's HOPO system. All other HOPO systems will become Handicaps as in issue 509
(GH2 / GH2 Strict / RF-Mod / None), as they will allow playing the song in a
different manner than the fretter intended.
Summary: Add new RB2 HOPO system with HOPO chords, custom HOPO, forced strums & fallback GH2 marking
Comment 7 by chris.paiano, Jan 31, 2009
Once this issue is complete, a "Sloppy" version of the RB2 HOPO system should be
created for use as a Handicap in issue 509 .
Comment 8 by [email protected], Feb 02, 2009
While this is being worked on, it would be nice to have a "HOPO After Chord" setting
that works like RB/RB2 as well. Or it could have its own issue. I've brought this up
before so I won't waste any more space here.
Comment 9 by chris.paiano, Feb 03, 2009
(...what?)
Comment 10 by chris.paiano, Feb 08, 2009
GH2 Sloppy and GH2 Strict will be phased out, in favor of more general "Sloppy" and
"Strict" handicaps (negative and positive, respectively) that will be applicable to
whatever HOPO system is in use (auto, RB2, GH2, RF-Mod).
The "Sloppy" handicap will provide GH2 Sloppy functionality (reverse tapping, no
strum required for tapping incorrectly) to any HOPO system.
The "Strict" handicap will provide GH2 Strict functionality (tapping incorrectly
results in a streak reset as well as requiring a re-strum) to any HOPO system.
Comment 11 by modster, Feb 09, 2009
i don't know if this is relative to the conversation, but with the recent beta 4 all
"normal" hopo functions have been rendered well "useless" i have GH2 for xb360 and
have played the same song "thunder horse" and where there should be hopo notes there
are none. i don't mean to be a pain in the arse but its makes playing much more painful.
i miss the old way it was when hopo's worked.... please please bring it back
i have played with all hopo variations and have no been able to reproduce the same
hopo frequency for GH2 on the 360
Comment 12 by chris.paiano, Feb 21, 2009
HOPOs are working fine, I've tested Thunderhorse. One of my favorite songs.
----------
New RB2 HOPO system related handicap that would be fun:
"Ignore Forced Strum Notes" or something to that effect - would only pay attention to
the RB2's forced HOPO note markers and completely ignore the forced strum note markers.
This would essentially use the GH2 HOPO system to automatically mark all notes as
usual, and then go through and also mark RB2 forced HOPO notes to be tappable. I
believe this would result in some very fun frettings of RB2 songs.
However, it will make many of them much easier (Chop Suey, anyone?). I suggest a
handicap factor of 0.85x or 0.90x to be fair.
Comment 13 by [email protected], Mar 01, 2009
Actually, if you look at the PART_GUITAR data for Chop Suey! in a MIDI editor you'll
see it has no custom HO/PO markings anywhere. The reason you have to strum those
notes in RB2 is because, as I've said countless times before, Rock Band handles
HO/POs after chords differently. Simply put, if the note is in the chord it cannot be
HO/POed.
If you're talking about the PART_BASS data, sure, that would be much easier.
Comment 14 by chris.paiano, Mar 02, 2009
Ah, really? I hadn't looked; that's good info. So RB doesn't allow chord pull-
offs...? Ever?
Then we can have this HOPO system handle the differnt logic when a RB style MIDI is
detected.
Comment 15 by [email protected], Mar 02, 2009
No, RB doesn't allow a HO/PO after a chord if the note after said chord is within the
chord. (e.g. a red-yellow chord followed closely by a yellow note. Both the chord and
the note must be strummed) However, if you have a red-yellow followed by a blue note,
the note CAN be hammered on.
The only exception to this (and I have seen these before) is when the note after the
chord is a forced HO/PO note. Just look at a YouTube video for guitar on In Bloom -
Nirvana, I can't provide a link right now because I'm at school and they block those
kinds of sites for some reason…
Comment 16 by [email protected], Mar 02, 2009
That sort of discussion should really be in its own issue. In the meantime, I would
love to see this committed, I wanna play Bodhisattva with all its crazy custom HO/POs.
Comment 17 by modster, Mar 03, 2009
Chris, i played thunderhorse on the alarian mod and the hopo's are there, but when i
play it with your version its not there, i'm not meaning to be aggressive about this,
but this is really one of those things that just put a chip on my shoulder, when i
have to double strum to hit the other notes would would normally be hopo, i wish i
could upload my version that i have so you could see what im talking about, i feel
like im often being thought of as a guy that just likes to nit pick.but im dead serious.
Comment 18 by evilynux, Apr 30, 2009
Issue 710 has been merged into this issue.